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16 December 2004



Thanks Tyrone for your thoughts. I do wonder why, when it is repeatedly written that God's kingdom is not of this earth, Christian groups still insist on working towards a terrestiral utopia.

The likes of Mohler are unfortunately a growing blot even in Singapore, in their obsession with controlling people's choices and even thoughts. As the agenda of a late televangelist screamed: Christian education is all about being "anti-communism, anti-socialism, anti-welfare state, anti-Russia, anti-China, a literal interpretation of the Bible and states' rights."


Actually the Roman Emperor was nominally acknowledged as a god, but essentially religion was unimportant. As long as you made a token bow to the Emperor's statue, they left you alone.

Besides, the Romans brought the Pax Romana, and life in the Roman Empire was much better than before it: http://killeenroos.com/1/Paxroma.htm

Communism is not a religion. Ideology maybe, but not a religion. Religions deal with the spiritual and supernatural. Communism did neither.

As for Germany, Hitler did use Christian rhetoric, but I wouldn't say Church and State fused.


Hmm... good points Agagooga.

The division between church and state depends largely one where you draw the line between religion and idealolgy. To lend a hand in this respect, religion holds that utopia exists and you get there by doing nice things here. Ideology holds that we are going to make a utopia here and god damn anyone who stands in the way.

The crux of any secular state is a means to restrict the influence of ideology on running a state. This generally accomplished by instituting a constitution that cherrishes personal benevolent freedom of choice, free speech and the right to bare arms in protection of these. Ultimately in any theocracy or ideocracy the ruling person or persons becomes the godhead and all must follow the leader or risk an most unpleasant fate.

The idea of secularism is to ensure that no one or institution should become a godhead whereby church and state can fuse and impose its (demented) will.



A secular state is not the same as a state based on secular humanistic principles.

Secularism in a state just means religion does not influence state affairs. Ideologies are free to do so.


BACK to subject!
I am Christian and I am proudly ChildFree!
Go ahead, read my website, it says it all.
"Blessed are the barren, the womb which never bore, and the breasts which never nursed". Who said this? JESUS did, to women, on His way to the Cross.
When someone proves that Jesus had kids, then I'll have some!


As a childfree Christian, I feel that, if the same God who made a virgin conceive wants me to be pregnant, then pregnant I shall be, regardless of any precautions my husband and I take against it. If that happens, we will trust that God will provide us with what we need financially, emotionally, and physically to be good parents. However, we do not feel, nor have ever felt, called to have children. There is no rule or law anywhere in the Bible that says we have to have children. Many of the Old Testement laws were put into place so that God could keep his promise to the Hebrews to preserve their people intact - students of the Bible understand this.

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